Paul
@paul@delenda.fr
(Article qui m’a aussi fait découvrir nb, que j’essaierais bien.)
Was forced to install the Miele app because it is the only way to tell the washing machine to clean itself. It asks you for permission to have third parties process and analyze your data no less than **8 times**. Ridiculous. I bet it will keep on asking until you give up. Also it is probably selling my data anyhow. Bah.
And yes, I personally know what to do to stop this. But it is not about me, it is about population level exploitation of data. Bah again.
Also this is some ESP8266 level performance! It's MAC address is registered to Miele, which is a nice touch.
The machine is "OFF" and it is STILL sending data to Microsoft Azure. You could not invent this world.
@bert_hubert
If it's not a silly question, why did you buy a washing machine with an app?
And to make matters worse I can’t even turn on the kind of cleaning I need. “Server error”
Alt...
A dark-themed error message stating "Our server cannot be accessed," accompanied by a cloud icon and an alert symbol. It advises users to try again later or contact Customer Service, mentioning a fault code of "InternalServerError."
in a DELICIOUS twist, despite what the Miele instructions said, the app is not able to initiate the 'TwinDos' cleaning. HOWEVER! The app did contain a link to an actual PDF manual which tells me to press an invisible button, keep it pressed, and then close the machine door, to get to a "programming menu". And option P68 there set to '1' enables the cleaning program. Next up, how to disconnect the machine from the internet again. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IV7hWqRr_FQ
@bert_hubert That smells like getting a smart meter in germany to tell you stuff you can machine-read… like shining a flashlight somewhere at certain intervals after you begged someone else to give you the activation code 😵💫
Now, I've not yet been able to fully disable the WiFi module yet. But it now thinks it is 127.0.0.1, and not getting very far anymore:
13:25:39.098568 ARP, Request who-has 127.0.0.1 tell 127.0.0.1, length 46
@bert_hubert Fun times. We were promised advanced washing machines with water filled counter-weights (patent number GB2559559A). Ultra-silent direct mount/direct drive motors. Life lasting bearings and enclosure made of stainless steel sheets. Yet the top tier brand could offer some internet of crap innovation.
And done, there is a combination of buttons you can press to reset the WiFi module. I have to admit, the programmers behind the Miele machine were real professionals. The machine formally abandoned its DHCP lease, and it even left the mDNS multicast group explicitly before shutting down. </rant>
@bert_hubert Should be off by default. I'll handwash before going for a machine which has this "feature".
@bert_hubert
I bet the programmers aren't fans of hiding everything behind an app either and they're the ones who came up with the button-combo to get around it
@bert_hubert Glorious thread. Does it still perform behind a local network-only firewall or does the app strictly need a server connection?
Did you get to see the proper 3rd party notices for this lovely embedded (possibly Linux) box? Last time I looked at #Miele in that regard, I wasn't amazed. #BSH did better. And BSH has the #ThinkLight of dishwashers...
Also: complaints filed already?
@bert_hubert Oh, also, @Medusalix is on a somewhat related quest - https://medusalix.github.io/posts/miele-interface/
I wish this was all open and documented.
It's my appliance, after all. Or ... is it? :-/
@bert_hubert did you see the post recently where someone figured out part of the optical diagnostics interface? I suspect you can use it to control the machine without it being on wifi at all! https://medusalix.github.io/posts/miele-interface/
@bert_hubert great effort! Sounds like the way to get the TV working while driving, in a 2000 BMW 524td. Involved turning the key in small steps, while opening and closing the drivers door twice.
@bert_hubert
What is wrong with the people who program this?
We're supposed to have left Befehl ist Befehl some 80y behind us, no?
@bert_hubert
Also, what kind of ethics classes do IT students get?
@janneke @bert_hubert
I guarantee you the people who program this are not the ones who are choosing of their own accord to write this. It's coming from upper management.
@DenOfEarth @bert_hubert
Of course. That's exactly why I ask what kind of person would not just say no to a stupid Befehl?
@janneke @DenOfEarth people who need money to live.
@bert_hubert @DenOfEarth
Yeah some would; Yet here I thought we were talking about German computer programmers.
@janneke @DenOfEarth also there people need to feed their families.
@bert_hubert @janneke @DenOfEarth Is the situation in Germany really so bad there are no other jobs?
@bert_hubert That's ... weird. I have a fairly recent Miele washing machine and that definitely allows selection of the self-cleaning cycle from the menu. (Though it's in a separate section.)
Have they changed that? That's indeed ridiculous. Disappointing.
(The Miele eco system at least has some API integration so I can use it with Home Assistant for monitoring, but why they need to go through the Cloud instead of the local wifi is entirely beyond me.)
@larsmb it is entirely possible to just believe me. I've been at this stuff for a while now. I've tried very hard to not have to do this.
@bert_hubert Oh, sorry, I *definitely* do believe you!
I was just expressing surprise at them making that change for the worse, because it is ridiculous.
@larsmb thanks - it turns out even with the app the machine won't listen since Miele is suffering from an "InternalServerError". So now I'm doubly fucked! And I haven't even started the mitmproxy yet to see what it is doing...
@bert_hubert
"Sorry you can't clean your clothes because Cloudflare (or some other system) is down (again)"
Feels like theft of service, honestly.
@bert_hubert
I went for the dumbest machine I could find, no internet connection just does the job, not regretting that decision at all 😃
I have the W1/T1 washer and dryer. They're the basic units.
Both are on the home WiFi. I installed the iPhone app.
Running tcpdump, the only traffic I see to/from either Miele IP is DNS and ARP stuff, and not even much of that.
The only oddity is that the two machines seem to be trying to keep tabs on each other with ARP requests such as:
Request who-has 192.168.0.7 tell 192.168.0.6
Maybe because I have the basic model machines?
@bert_hubert when I was a kid Miele had the best price/performance of home appliances. Then they started to sell equivalent products at three to four times of competition price, relying on their brand power. And now this.
Perfect investigation and solution on your part by the way...
https://www.dokuwiki.org/fr:plugin:extension#interface_en_ligne_de_commande
Today's follow-up #FreeSoftwareAdvent entry is vi/vim.
Which I use depends on the situation. Classic vi/nvi tends to be lighter weight and start faster, while vim offers extra features that I find particularly useful). I usually just type `vi` which gets me `vi` on OpenBSD, `nvi` on FreeBSD, and `vim` (or `vim-tiny`) on most flavors of Linux. If I specifically want vim features, I'll invoke it as such directly.
I could go on for ages about favorite features, but a select few:
• the ability to keep my hands on the home row and not use a mouse is helpful for preventing RSI symptoms
• it's a language¹ of editing, involving counts, verbs/commands, and objects/motions, so I can express my editing *intent* and then use the period command to re-issue that same editing *intent*
• the :global or :substitute commands can make massive-yet-precise edits across huge files
• the :*do commands extend that power across multiple files, allowing me to precisely edit millions of lines across thousands of files with targeted precision
• it's ubiquitous—even as some Linux distros have started removing ed(1) from the base installs , relegating it to packages, I can always type `vi` on any Unix-like/POSIX system and be editing with a powerful editor. And with builds for Windows and my phone, I can use it everywhere. No need to install anything
• they work just fine over a SSH connection without a GUI, and use minimal resources so they work even on that old hardware from the 90s.
@gumnos That article is actually great, I read several years ago on SO, and it was kinda revelatory experience.
I'd probably could go minimalist route right up to vi/nvi/elvis, but vim has one extremely important feature that I can't replace: keymaps, i.e. I can type in Russian and still be able to use vim commands (well, most of them at least). Emacs does this internationalization stuff even better, to be honest. You can switch input methods even in minibuffers.
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